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'Rising nationalism among the Greek Cypriots is the most serious threat' |
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Friday, 2 December 2005* TRNC President Mehmet Ali Talat's exclusive interview with TNA
By Nursun EREL
TNA/Lefkosa
The biggest threat to a solution to the Cyprus problem is escalating nationalism, Mehmet Ali Talat, the president of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), told The New Anatolian in an exclusive interview.
Talat charged that Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos' only aim is to find ways and means to assimilate Turkish Cypriots.
The president asked for Ankara's full support to persuade the Russian side to take initiatives or at least not avoid steps being taken through the United Nations.
During our exclusive interview in Lefkosa, here's what TRNC President Talat had to day:
TNA: Especially after your recent landmark visit to Washington D.C., where does the Cyprus issue stand?
TALAT: It wasn't a visit to discuss very concrete projects, it was more symbolic. It was the highest-level invitation from the U.S. administration to the Turkish Cypriots to date. In fact, I believe that during that visit, all our aims were realized. Also our talk with UN General-Secretary Kofi Annan was important. We expressed our view that the secretary-general should relaunch an initiative as soon as possible. But everyone knows that the Annan isn't eager to take any steps if a positive atmosphere towards a solution is lacking. On the whole, I can say that our U.S. visit was very fruitful.
TNA: At this point how do you see the Bush administration's approach towards ending the international isolation of the TRNC?
TALAT: We told them clearly that our aim is a solution. Our request to end the isolation isn't for a separation -- on the contrary, it is for a healthy reunification. So we were able to explain to them all our thoughts -- not only verbally but also with documents. So I believe that this was really useful to express our stance on various issues. I believe that we're seeing the results of these talks, because the United States is playing a leading role on ending our isolation. Certainly as a superpower, it has unique political opportunities to solve the issue.
There's also another point, which is about the need to get the Greek Cypriot side to become positive towards a solution and to contribute to the process. This is the expectation of the U.S. side. [The need to wait for a solution] may be one reason to slow down U.S. policy towards pushing for a solution on Cyprus at this stage. I don't know the reasons behind this, only the American policymakers would know, but anyhow this isn't changing the direction towards a solution. The United States of America is really the most serious party working honestly to end the embargo on the TRNC.
Main problem is the Russian approach
TNA: Did you get the impression that the TRNC's position and difficulties are understood by the American side?
TALAT: Certainly the main mechanism for the removal of the embargo is in the hands of the European Union. Greek Cyprus became a full member and using the EU leverage they're trying to put all kinds of pressure towards us. They're also trying their best to place all kinds of difficulties and hurdles in front of Turkey, and by doing this they plan to drive a wedge between Turkey and TRNC. All this is happening in the framework of the EU. So we try to explain all these facts in the international arena. The greatest leverage is in the hands of the EU, they have all the power to end the embargo and pressure the Greek Cypriots for a solution.
TNA: Most of the time the U.S. administration can be very influential on the European side, don't you think?
TALAT: Especially on ending the embargo the U.S. administration is acting quite determinedly. We do see such an attitude on the part of the U.S., but I'm not sure about the concrete results.
TNA: During your visit to Washington D.C., Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani was also there, but he was welcomed at the presidential level (as the 'president' of the Kurdistan region, by U.S. President George W. Bush). Did it affect you at least psychologically as the president of TRNC?
TALAT: No. Because you know that this invitation wasn't new, since after I was elected we had plans (for a visit) but due to several reasons we postponed it. Even Turkey's critical balances before Oct. 3 (the day Turkey's EU talks started) were a reason for the postponement. It wasn't a presidential invitation, but up to now this is the highest level of acceptance for the Turkish Cypriots.
TNA: At this point, what are your expectations from the U.S. side?
TALAT: A rather important issue is Russian policy. In fact, we expect the Russians to move. During our talk in Washington, I expressed all my views on the issue to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, so the U.S. side is also very much aware of Russia's role. We also expressed our views and expectations to the UN secretary-general. So no action by the U.S. side will yield anything if Russia isn't on board. Their approval is also needed. It would be a very positive step if the U.S. and Russia could act together on that issue. This would be a very valuable effort, I believe.
TNA: Last week President Vladimir Putin was in Turkey. Did you hear any news from Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that the issue was brought up during their meeting in Samsun?
TALAT: We keep on talking about that issue with our Turkish colleagues, we keep on asking them to use their influence on the Russian side. I'm sure that Prime Minister Erdogan brought up the issue during their talks, but to tell you the truth I haven't heard anything concrete yet. Russia must know that their approach on the Cyprus issue is crucial, but we haven't seen anything concrete from them yet.
The additional protocol
TNA: How do you see the recent controversy on the additional Customs Union protocol concerning the possible opening of Turkish harbors and airports to the Greek Cypriots?
TALAT: We see this positively but, at the same time, we ask that the restrictions on us be lifted. Also Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul shares this view. So we accept the Turkish harbors being opened to the Greek Cypriots but we also for our harbors to be opened to the outside at the same time. When our harbors are closed, if only the mainland Turkish harbors are opened, this would be fatal to our economy.
TNA: Do you think the additional protocol will be ratified by the Turkish Parliament soon?
TALAT: Well, I don't see any other solution than that. Because Turkey signed that protocol and made promises about it.
TNA: How do you see things in the long run? If reunification happens one day, do you think both sides will adapt to each other easily?
TALAT: There are various possibilities. But there are critical developments recently on the Greek Cypriot side -- in the form of escalating nationalism. Especially among the young Greek Cypriots, this is a serious development. This new nationalistic approach also became dominant in government institutions. Papadopoulos's nationalistic approach became a reason for all these provocations. Even the judiciary is affected. So since there are such serious developments, I wonder if in the future there's unification, what kind of atmosphere we'll face. I must tell you that there is a real deterioration of social relations. This nationalistic spirit is harming our social relations.
Even on bird flu issue they don't cooperate
TNA: You recently complained about the Greek Cypriots stubbornness on even the bird flu issue.
TALAT: They never cooperate with us. There was a recent case of serial murders and three Turkish Cypriots were suspected.The Greek Cypriots said that they had all the proof in their hands, even the DNA test results or video records. But after we arrested those suspects they refused to cooperate with us, and after a while we had to let them go. In fact Greek Cypriots are trying to harm our authority. They act as if the Turkish side isn't a reality. As far as they're concerned, our police and our judiciary don't exist. They keep on calling our state a fake one and our institutions false ones. They aren't cooperating with us in any kind of smuggling cases, even serious ones. I can even give examples of human trafficking to Europe or drug smuggling. These are serious issues. Recently we wrote them a letter and asked them to sit down together to discuss the necessary steps to be taken against bird flu, and they never answered. So they don't have any intention to cooperate with us in any matters, even the most serious ones.
TNA: You changed the government protocol recently, exempting the Turkish ambassador. What further steps do you plan?
TALAT: Even such a necessary change created such a controversy, but I believe that our governmental institutes must be strengthened. This is crucial for our future, we must have modern, contemporary institutions of the state. These are also important steps for future unification too. If one day the North and South are going to reunite all their institutions must be established in coherence. This would ease the process. Who is governing the TRNC now? The government which was elected by the Turkish Cypriots. So these things must be done by that government. That's our approach.
TNA: Decades have passed since the split. The new generations don't know each other properly. They don't speak the same language, but previous generations were much better at least speaking each other's tongues. Don't you think this is a disadvantage?
TALAT: Well the recent atmosphere among the new generations isn't so bright, but it was worse for the older generations, who, after all, fought against each other, and this was more painful. But anyhow I believe that the new generations have a better chance to live together. But I must tell you the greatest risk of spoiling that atmosphere is the rising nationalism among the Greek Cypriots. In fact the situation in the TRNC is totally different, there's an acceptance and flexibility towards the Greek Cypriots. In fact sometimes I believe that is an excessive flexibility. If the Greek side had the same approach the solution would be found more easily, the (April 2004) referendum wouldn't have been rejected by them.
40,000 Greek passports
TNA: There are speculations about the number of the Turkish Cypriots who carry Greek Cypriot passport. What do you think about this?
TALAT: Well, in fact this is a way of easing the living conditions, because once they have that passport they can travel freely in Europe, even in most of the other countries of the world. But the numbers are exaggerated, I believe.
TNA: What is the number of those passports recently issued?
TALAT: I'm not the one who issues them, so I'm not in a position to know the numbers, ask Mr. Papadopoulos, according to him this number is around 40,000.
TNA: Do you think this is natural in a country where only 200,000 people are living?
TALAT: I always thought so. Even when some people argued that the passports should be banned and people holding them arrested. This is their right, a human right. I can't change my ideas.
TNA: In 2012 the term presidency of the EU will be held by the Greek Cypriots. What do you think will happen between now and then?
TALAT: God knows. But I can say that before then the Cyprus issue must be solved. If not, it means great crises will be faced. Such crises will force a solution I believe.
TNA. Do you think we'll be able to see such a solution during our lifetimes?
TALAT: Don't you think we'll live until then?
The greatest fault is theirs
TNA: Some people insisted on claming that the Justice and Development (AK) Party Government would easily give concessions on the Cyprus issue, so in the third year of this government how do you see things from that aspect?
TALAT: Well let me tell you something. The biggest fault belongs to those who didn't want a solution. The best chance for a solution was the period up to the Copenhagen summit (of May 2004 when the EU took in 15 new members, including Greek Cyprus), everyone said this: But many others, including (then President) Mr. Rauf Denktas, supported the issue staying unresolved. So they don't have the right to talk or to criticize. If today the future of Cyprus is at risk -- which I don't believe -- such a risk was created by them. But I'm not as pessimistic as them because we said yes to the UN solution (in April 2004). So that yes will save us. Because that yes proved that the Turkish Cypriots aren't arguing for separation, but that we believe in unification. From now on if we can apply logical policies we can stop the Greek Cypriots' maximalist demands.
TNA: How do you see the Greek Cypriots' complaints about the Turkish flag painted in stones on the mountains?
TALAT: Why do they complain? Instead of complaining, if they said yes to a solution, now that flag would be a symbol of unification.
TNA: They still keep on asking for the withdrawal of the Turkish troops from the island.
TALAT: They refuse a solution but they insist on that. This is neither logical nor ethical. They try to create an agenda with that issue. Mr. Papadopoulos said that they're planning a solution with the withdrawal of the Turkish Army from the island, and he openly said that their aim is osmosis, an assimilation. So it's obvious that such a demand isn't an indicator of good will.
I have the burden but ÔÇÐ
TNA: You have a calm way of looking at all the issues, but I think there's a certain point where you would balk too. If the process goes on like this, will there be an end to your calm?
TALAT: I have a serious responsibility, I have such a burden on my shoulders. I believe that my duty is finding a solution, not creating obstacles to a solution. But in international policy matters sometimes it isn't easy to create transformations. I think we need time for a solution. Mr. Papadopoulos openly says that their intention is only osmosis, so if we can make the world see that clearly, we'll get closer to a solution.
TNA: So you believe that this is going to happen in the long run?
TALAT: Well it looks that way, also the obstacles faced by Turkey during the EU accession period and the crises on this road will ease the solution too.
TNA: What's it like being a successor to longtime leader Rauf Denktas?
TALAT: It isn't hard. Because I came to power with great support from my people and this support still goes on, I feel this. So I don't carry the burden of the policies which were designed by Mr. Denktas but I face all the negative conditions stemming from those mistaken policies. I just have such difficulty dealing with all the disasters he created politically. But anyway I firmly believe that we'll succeed in the end.
Source: The New Anatolian |
Friday, 2 December 2005
Interview with TRNC President Talat
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