Interview by Akif Tugcu (JTW)

Journal of Turkish Weekly conducted an exclusive interview with the Head of USAK Center for Asia-Pacific Studies Dr. Selcuk Colakoglu regarding Turkish-Chinese relations. You can read the full text of the interview below


Q: Can you briefly summarize the development of relations between People's Republic of China (PRC) and Turkey since 1971 when first official relations were established between two countries?

A: Turkey had been recognized the Republic of China in Taiwan even before 1971. Accordingly, it was in 1971 that the first official relations were begun with PRC. But it wasn't until quite a time after that the Turkey-PRC relations became significantly strong. It can be seen that relations between Turkey and China were quite weak both in terms of high-level visits and trade relations in the 1970's and the 80's. Social contacts were also at the lowest level at that time. In the 80's the Chinese economy had opened to foreign markets and developed quickly with the help of the modernization movement started since 1978 under the leadership of Deng Xiaoping.

As from 1990, Chinese economy began to become influential around the World. In the 1990s the Chinese perception in Turkey had started to change and we had certain expectations for establishment of strong economic and political affiliations with China. However, there had not been any significant development regarding economic or political relations during the 1990's. When the 2000s began, things changed. The visit of President Jiang Zemin to Turkey in 2000 was a turning point for relations between the two countries. Ankara and Beijing expressed their profound desire to establish strong political relations and at the same time develop mutual economic relations.

We can see that in the 2000s, mutual high-level contacts intensified and bilateral trade increased between Turkey and China. Starting from 2004, economic and commercial relations increased incrementally each year. In 2008, total trade volume reached approximately 17 billion dollars. Of course that also brought certain problems along with it. While the trade volume increased quite rapidly, nearly 15 billion dollars out of 17 billion dollars consisted of Turkish imports from China. Given the facts that there have been certain complaints regarding the low-quality of products coming from China to Turkey and that there is an imbalance in commercial relations, certain problems were also born regarding political relations. This situation motivated Ankara and Beijing to search for new horizons for the development of relations. High-level contacts were increased as of 2008 in order to strengthen and redefine bilateral relations again and to create a strategic vision.


Q: You follow today's China-Turkish Republic relations very closely. You accompanied of President Abdullah G¸l to China visit in 2009 and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoðlu to China in 2010. What are your observations? What kind of decisions had been made during these visits? What will be the next stages of relations between two countries as of now?

A: One of the most important steps taken with regard to bilateral relations is the visit of President Abdullah G¸l to China in June 2009 with a huge delegation. In the course of this visit, Turkey-China relations were analyzed at the highest level. Decisions that had been taken were important not only for the strengthening of political relations, but also for rendering economic relations to the multidimensional level. The demand of Ankara from Beijing was not only that China should buy certain Turkish products but also balancing the trade activities. Because certain products imported from China are re-exported after being used in manufacturing industry in Turkey. Thus, demands of Ankara were mainly concentrated on balancing policies. For example, investment of Chinese companies in Turkey, establishment of Turkish-Chinese joint-ventures and co-investment in third countries, etc.

These issues constituted the agenda of Turkish-Chinese Business Council in Beijing again under the guidance of President G¸l in June 2009. China had been taken into consideration as a whole in the visit programme of President G¸l. Not only Beijing but also Xian, the historical capital, Shenzhen, one of the most important financial hubs of China was visited. Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region which has a great symbolic value in Turkish-Chinese relations was also visited. President G¸l had given a speech to a crowd consisting mostly of Uyghur academicians and students at the Xinjiang University in Urumqi and stressed on that the Uyghur people should be a friendship bridge between Turkey and China. Accordingly we can say that Ankara considers the Uyghur people as an instrument for acceleration of relations with China.

However, when the Urumqi riots broke out on July the 5th, 2009 just after the visit, a certain degree of perturbation had been experienced between the two countries. Despite this fact, Chinese and Turkish sides took quick steps towards normalization of relations by showing constructive attitudes during this process. Particularly, Zafer «aðlayan, Minister of Foreign Trade, made a visit to Beijing in September 2009 as the special representative of the Prime Minister Erdoðan. Minister «aðlayan had also visited Urumqi and attended to the International Urumqi Fair.

Since September 2009, ministerial and high-level bureaucratic contacts have been continued in an intensified way. Finally, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao made an important visit to Turkey in September 2010. During this visit, numerous economic and commercial agreements had been signed. Among these agreements, there is also the 20 billion dollar-agreement for the high-speed train projects in Turkey by Chinese companies. Furthermore, certain agreements were signed both for the development of Turkish-Chinese joint ventures and the increase of Chinese investments in Turkey.

Following the successful Wen Jiabao visit, in October 2010, Foreign Minister Davutoðlu made a visit to China with a huge delegation. During this visit, Chinese authorities made a gesture to the Turkish delegation and let them to visit Kashgar and Urumqi. The Turkish delegation visited the mausoleums of Mahmud al-Kashgari and Yusuf Khas Hajib in Kashgar, whose are the most important Turkish intellectual figures. The Davutoðluís delegation then moved from Urumqi to the historical capital Xian and then Shanghai. The Turkish delegation participated in the closing ceremony of the Shanghai Expo 2010. Foreign Minister Davutoðlu and his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi made a follow-up of the agreements signed by Chinese and Turkish Prime Ministers in September 2010 in Turkey. Therefore, Turkish-Chinese ëstrategic cooperationí was mapped out.


Q: China and the Turkey are two rising powers during recent years. What kind of cooperation can happen between these two countries?

A: In the current situation, we can see that Turkey-China relations have turned to strategic partnership. Accordingly the relations between Turkey and China are no longer an ordinary relation between any two countries but a matter which concerns the whole World. We have various indicators of this fact. Turkey and China are members of G20 which consists of the biggest economies of the World and which has actually begun to take place of the United Nations Security Council. China has surpassed Japan as of 2011 and become the second largest economy of the World after the USA. Turkey is also the 16th biggest economy. Within this framework, it is expected that Turkey will take its place among the top ten largest economies within ten years. From this point of view, the economic collaboration between Turkey and China does not concern only these two countries but the whole World economy. In terms of foreign policy strategies of Turkey and China, it can be seen that there is a common approach for ensuring international peace and stability and for a more just representation on international level.

Thereby, it is clear that strategic relations between Turkey and China will affect global balances both in economic and political dimensions. Besides, Turkish-Chinese relations have likely become more strategic and that their economic relations become more profound.


Q: Is China a rival for Turkey from an economic point of view? Can Turkey turn this situation into an advantage? Can an Import-Export balance be achieved between two countries?

A: When we take a look at commercial relations, it can be seen that Turkey has a great deficit in comparison. More than 80 percent of bilateral trade consists of exports from China to Turkey. This situation causes some worries to the Turkish economic sectors. When we assess the imports from China in detail, we can see that an important part of this consists of products with medium or low level technology which are not manufactured in Turkey. Besides, a significant part of these imported goods from China are re-exported to third countries after being re-processed in Turkish manufacturing industry as an intermediate product. The imports from China also decrease the inflation in Turkey. None of Turkish authorities expect for bilateral trade to have a fifty-fifty balance. Turkey demands from China the implementation of other balancing factors. The most important one of these factors is the foreign direct investments in Turkey by Chinese companies. Establishing of a R&D centre in Turkey by the Chinese technology company Huawei, can be shown a good example of that. Turkey also offers an appealing opportunity as a strategic hub for opening to Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Eurasia. Another idea for balancing of bilateral trade is joint ventures of Turkish and Chinese companies in third countries.

The other compensating factor is tourism. New generation of wealthy Chinese people visits various corners of the World. Though being a tourism country, Turkey is not very successful to attract Chinese travellers. Moreover, direct flights from China to Turkey should be increased. Even though the number of direct flights increased recently, it is still insufficient.

Collaborations between Turkey and China might be made for educational purposes. In Turkey, there are numerous universities giving education in English. Certain projects may be implemented on higher education in order to attract Chinese students to the Turkish Universities. It is possible to give education in English language under more appealing conditions to Chinese students who usually prefer to go to North America, Australia and the UK. Bilateral cooperation in the field of education is highly important regarding the development of human resources.


Q: Is it possible to consider the development of domestic demand of China thanks to the wealthy groups created with the increase income level of the Chinese also as a balancing factor with regard to this matter?

A: Of course! As a matter of fact, this was exactly our purpose with joint investments. For the moment, the Under-secretariat of Foreign Trade of Turkey has an undergoing project. Establishing of the joint industrial zone Urumqi is one of them. It is also aimed to increase the investment of Turkish companies in China. Turkish companies are planning to invest into China on regional or sector basis. In addition to that, direct flights may be assigned between Urumqi and Istanbul. It is a fact that Urumqi is a gate of China opening to the Central Asia. Turkish investments in Urumqi can be developed in such a way that they will attract not only the Chinese market but also the Central Asian market or even the Indian market.

China recently leased a large port in Greece and plans to use the Piraeus port as a logistic base in its trading activities in the Mediterranean region. Turkish businessmen have also various concerns on this leasing issue.

In fact, the lease of a Turkish port instead of a Greek one by the Chinese and the use of it as a logistic base were frequently considered in Turkey. But Turkey needs to do more on that issue. Turkish courts have a very cautious stance on privatization of Turkish ports by foreign companies. When necessary steps were not taken for Ýzmir and Mersin ports, China preferred the Piraeus port of Greece. The Chinese plans to use the Piraeus port as an important logistic base for the East Mediterranean region and East Europe. This is a missed opportunity for Turkey. Now, the hand-over of the Trabzon port to Chinese companies through privatization is discussed. In relation with this situation, a mentality change is needed in Turkey particularly in judicial system because there is no way for attracting great amounts of foreign capital. Turkey presents itself to the European Union, Russia, the Middle East, the Caucasus, Central Asia, Africa, China and other economies as a strategic logistic base located on both oil and gas pipeline routes. It is still possible to increase the entrance of Chinese capital into Turkey through the privatization of the Trabzon port or other Turkish ports.


Q: In recent years important steps have been taken regarding cultural relations between China and Turkey. Confucius institutes were founded in two Turkish universities, namely METU and BoðaziÁi University. 8 millions visitors visited the Turkish Pavilion in the Shanghai Expo 2010. The year 2012 is announced to be the Chinese year in Turkey and the year 2013, Turkish year in China. How do you think about these activities? What kind of effects will they have on bilateral relations?

A: One of the weakest points of the Turkish-China relations is in the cultural level. Two peoples do not know much about each other. During last decade, bilateral economic and political relations reached a highly considerable level. However, relations on social level are still quite weak. If a survey were to be done in streets of Turkey on China or vice versa, it will be seen that these two peoples really do not know each other. In this respect, it is very meaningful of the Turkish Year in China in 2012 and Chinese Year in Turkey in 2013. In Expo 2010 Shanghai, Turkish pavilion was an important step for the introducing Turkey. Increase in the number of mutual flights, encouraging Chinese travellers to come to Turkey and in parallel with this, increase of collaboration between Turkish and Chinese educational institutions would help for a more deep-rooted cooperation. Particularly, it is possible to implement teachers and students exchange projects by creating a common fund between Turkey and China like Erasmus programme in the EU zone. Today, Turkish universities have a capacity to reach out to international standards particularly in the field of social sciences. It is possible to encourage Chinese students to come to Turkish universities by providing them certain scholarship resources. Increase of social contacts among peoples will be a positive step for the strategic vision on political level.


Q: China showed a rapid and stable growth since the beginning of the 80s and it does not seem like this growth will make a break in the near future. What is your opinion regarding the influence of this growth on both such regional countries as Korea, Japan, Russia, India as well as on the world order and international balances?

A: China and Turkey are among those who had showed rapid growth during the 2000s. Besides, there are many similarities in joint strategic vision of Turkey and China. Particularly during the years 2009 and 2010, Turkish and Chinese officials had made intensive collaborations in the United Nations Security Council. Having followed "Zero Problem with Neighbours" policy, Turkey wants to see a World where global problems are diminished to the lowest level, where international collaboration increases and where international trade is more frequent. China has also a similar foreign policy strategy. China tries to develop its foreign relations in a multidimensional level based on "peaceful rise" motto. Thereby, it is possible for Turkey and China to make both economic and political collaborations. Turkey and China do not consider other members of G20 as competitors but partner countries. Turkey has already begun to develop intensive relations with all G20 counties such as South Korea, Japan, Russia, India, Brazil and Indonesia along with China.


Q: The soft power of China becomes more and more attention-grabbing. In the same way, Turkey has also obtained an effective soft power in the Middle East and Africa thanks to its active foreign policies implemented during recent years. Is it possible that a competition / conflict between China and Turkey in those regions in the near future?

A: Turkey and China have a rising share in the markets of many developing countries. China and Turkey are two countries whose economic and political influences increase particularly in the Middle East and Africa. This fact is enormously important for the increase of economic investments in the Middle East and Africa. Because both countries are implementing into big projects such as building dams, highways, housing, etc.

Instead of competing with each other, Turkey and China can implement joint projects in Africa and the Middle East and find a formula for cooperation. Both countries may develop joint investment strategies particularly in Africa.This will have a facilitating role in the development of under-developed African nations. Turkey will organize the Least Developed Countries Summit in Istanbul in May 2011 as an UN duty. For five years, Turkey will assume the presidency of the "Least Developed Counties" platform. Most of these under-developed countries are from Africa and thus Turkey will have a great role in this region. China also has also a position as a country with great influence on the Third World for years. It is possible that Ankara and Beijing make collaboration not only in economic term but also in political level in Africa.


Q: Turkeyís developing relations with China and other non-Western countries are subject to some criticisms that Turkey is moving away from the Western alliance. What do you think about that?

A: The strategic partnership between Turkey and China is closely followed by international public. When Turkey make a close cooperation with the Mid-East countries or Russia and signed certain strategic agreements including nuclear power plants, there had been discussions on the orientation of Turkey. Actually, this is not such a reasonable question in today's World, because all actors try to develop a multidimensional relation within the international system. Turkey has developed its relations not only with China but also with Brazil. One of the biggest commercial partners of USA and Japan is China. China has strong relation with EU countries, particularly with Germany. Most recently, China has leased the Piraeus port of Greece and will use this location as a regional logistic base. Strategic partnership between China and Turkey is not an alliance created against any country. It can only be seen as a partnership which will help both ensuring peace and stability in today's World and the development of the World as a whole. In this respect, neither China nor Turkey has an intention for power concentration. Ankara and Beijing have only developed their relations, just like the USA or the EU or Japan does it ... Of course, multidimensional relations of Turkey does not only include China. Development of Turkeyís relations with India, Brazil and other G20 countries is an ongoing process. This situation concerns not only China but also Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and South Africa. Moreover, strong political and economical relations of Turkey with the USA and Europe have still continued. Nobody can say that Turkey should only have relations with Western countries. Last but not least, Turkey has an intention to contribute to international peace and stability by diversifying its relations. This diversification, of course, brings economic benefits. Especially during last decade, Turkey has tried to transform itself from a "security state" into a "trade state". The biggest desire of a ëtrade stateí is the global peace and stable international economic order.