Interviewed by Elma Jelovac (JTW)

The relations between Turkey and Greece have improved over the last decade, but there are still points of dispute, such as the status of minorities, Cyprus issue and the sovereignty of the Aegean Sea. Journal of Turkish Weekly conducted an interview with Muzaffer Vatansever, Balkan Expert of USAK Center for EU Studies, to get more details about the ongoing negotiations between the two countries.

Q: Historical differences have several times brought Turkey and Greece to the brink of war, but mutual visits in the latest period were of particular importance for the relations between two neighbours. During exploratory talks on the issues of Cyprus, Aegean Sea and the minorities, Turkey and Greece have achieved progress, but no agreement has been reached. What is your position regarding the improvement of the relations? Is win-win situation possible?

Muzaffer Vatansever: Turkey-Greece relations have always been marked by problems, conflicts and crisis during the modern history. But, this has changed in last years, especially as a result of Turkey's "zero problems with neighbours" policy. Apart from the new foreign policy, three more reasons affected improvement in the relations. First of all, there was an economic factor. When we look at the statistics we see that bilateral trade volume has been on the increase since the end of the 1990s. Secondly, friendship of Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ýsmail Cem and Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs, George Papandreou and then "earthquake diplomacy', made a huge effect on the governments and public as well, in both countries. This term was used following the earthquakes in Golcuk and Athens in 1999, which resulted in mutual help between Turkey and Greece. The last but not least, is the European Union. In order to become a member of the EU, Turkey perceived itself to develop good neighbourhood policy with its bordering countries. And in order to become more central country in the EU, Greece was supposed to behave in more constructive way. So, despite conflictual history, relations between Turkey and Greece entered into a positive atmosphere, based on these reasons. So, the ground was ready for Davutoglu's philosophy of "zero-problem" Turkish foreign policy. Yes, there are a lot of unsolved problems between two countries such as Cyprus issue, Aegean Sea disputes and the minorities, and it is impossible to solve them immediately. This won't be easy as well, but in comparison with the past, there is a very positive atmosphere in the relations between two countries in the recent times; therefore, I hope this atmosphere and good faith of two leaders will pave the way for reaching some concrete results in near future.

Q: As you mentioned, there is a strong effect of EU on the relations between Turkey and Greece, especially as of the end of 1990s. In this regard, how do you evaluate Greece's policy towards Turkey's EU membership?

Muzaffer Vatansever: I define its policy towards Turkey's EU membership as Greece wants to solve bilateral problems with Turkey by bringing Ankara into the EU. In other words, Greece perceives the EU as tool for its own interests. So, rhetorically Greece supports Turkey's membership, but not in a way that the UK or Spain does it. Greece has a critical strategy. The main aim of Greece is not Europeanization of Turkey, but Europeanization of their bilateral relations that it matters. The best example of that is Cyprus issue. When Turkey signed its Customs Union Agreement with the EU in 1996, Greece didn't veto it in return for the following EU membership of Southern Cyprus. Today, Cyprus issue stands as the concrete obstacle for Turkey's EU membership. In short, Greece supports Turkey's membership, but it is a conditional support, because Greece uses it as a tool in order to solve its problems within the framework of the EU.

Q: Both countries have sizeable military budgets, primarily because of the bilateral tensions. Economic crisis have brought even more problems for Greece. Do you think that arms spending reduction is possible?

Muzaffer Vatansever: For sure, I think it is possible. Greece is experiencing a severe economic crisis nowadays due to the global economic turmoil. In this regard, reductions in the arms spending became rational and logical. It was stated and offered very clearly, during the Erdogan's visit to Athens in May this year that Turkey would agree to cancel military flights in the Aegean. Greece severely needs arms spending reductions in order to survive from the economic crisis.

Q: How do you evaluate the fact that Greek media sometimes puts false (or asparagas) news regarding the ongoing negotiations on Aegean disputes between Turkey and Greece? As you know, it is stated in one of the famous Greek newspapers last week that Greece's arguments on the Aegean Sea was accepted by Turkey.

Muzaffer Vatansever: Since the beginning of the 2000 more than forty commissions have been organized between two countries but the details of the negotiations and possible results were not announced publicly. It was kept as a secret. We've never been formally told what the details are and what level was reached during the negotiations. Still, there is no official statement regarding the ongoing negotiations and achievements. So, news in Greek media don't have formal basis. Official statements will be made only after the agreement is signed. However, this kind of false news behaviour is not something strange to media in Greece; we experienced it several times previously.

Q: How do you comment on this manner in Greek media?

Muzaffer Vatansever: It is because, historically the relations between Turkey and Greece had always perceived from negative view point. And in Greece there are still a lot of nationalists, whether in politics, media or in civil society, who spread propaganda against Turkey. However, it is not correct to make comments on Turkish-Greek relations by looking only at these nationalistic groups; that's why we read Greek news with reservation.

Q: In the end, could you say whether you look optimistically or not towards the future of Turkish-Greek relations?

Muzaffer Vatansever: Yes, I can say that. I am quite optimistic.